tv The Last Word MSNBC February 11, 2013 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
without having to compete for it he backed out. pity, so who is running then? who is willing to be it had every famous republican in the whole state is running as fast as they can from this race, yelling not it, not it. and a whole lot of republicans we never heard of, they're all saying not it, as well. who is left? remember, two weeks left to go now to get 10,000 signatures. and the process of getting signatures in massachusetts looks something like that right now. well, so far there is one republican state representative who says he will run. he has never run for statewide office before and has zero name recognition. also, there is a second republican candidate today who picked up the nomination papers to start his run, as well. and also has zero name recognition, never has run for office. the only political history is he said he voted for barack obama, and is listed as a donor for several democratic parties in
the past year. that is who they have, after the presidential election. they have a state rep who nobody has heard of and another guy who has never run for anything, who nobody has heard of. that is it. that said, consider who they have to work with. this is the facebook page for the senate republican caucus in massachusetts. that is not like a sub-group of them. that is all of them. there are precisely four republicans in the massachusetts state senate and, more than four times as democrats, as many republicans in the state house, the massachusetts house doesn't have what you would call a deep bench, their two totally unknown would-be candidates for u.s. senate now have two weeks to get 10,000 signatures amid the historic piles of snow and nobody going anywhere. what are the odds? that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern, which is
and the republicans voted for the sequester, now they hate the sequester. so who do the republicans blame for the sequester? take a while guess. >> our future is hopeful, our journey goes forward. and the state of the union is strong. >> it is the state of the union eve. >> the state-of-the-union address. >> the state of the union. >> president obama will pivot back to the economy. >> that is not a prescription for getting a budget deal with the house republicans. >> the sequester turned into a ridiculous blame game. >> he is the one who proposed it in the first place. >> it is completely wrong and to make that argument requires a sequestration of memory. >> we have had plenty of spending cuts, what we need is growth deva vu all over again. >> there is a lot of energy coming from the tea party. >> the gop will not present a unified front. >> they want an independent voice. >> marco rubio, rand paul will
both be giving responses. >> when the republican party chose paul ryan to give the official response. >> we want to work with the president. >> the tea party issued their own rebuttal. >> the tea party is a dynamic force for good. >> the republicans' problem these days is a brand problem. >> tomorrow is make or break. >> there is no shortage of things to say about the state of the union. >> the state-of-the-union address. >> the state of the union is fill in the blank. >> our future is hopeful. our journey goes forward and the state of our union is strong. >> the so-called sequester, a
large package of spending cuts set to go into effect march 1st, which was voted into law by a republican house of representatives and with majority republican support in the senate is now, according to the republicans who voted for it and hate it, the obama sequester. >> over the past few weeks, i have come to the floor to urge the president, and senate democrats to act on the huge fiscal challenges facing our nation. starting with the obama sequester. unless the senate democrats allow a reasonable spending cut alternative to pass the chamber before march 1st, the president's plan will go into effect. >> you know, the president, he is the one who proposed the sequester in the first place. >> even some republicans don't like the republican repeated lying about the sequester. it actually led the
communications director for the conservative club for growth to tweet on his personal account, every time i hear the republicans call this the president's sequester, my head explodes, because they all voted for the legislation that created it. that puts the communications director for an ultra-conservative anti-tax organization with a very sensitive head and the press secretary for the white house on exactly the same page when it comes to the republican lie about the sequester. >> when the budget control act passed on august 11th, 2011, through the house of representatives it passed by a vote of 269 to 161. based on statements by republicans today you would have thought that the vast majority of that vote was from democrats. well, for fact, 174 of the 269 were republicans. house republicans, only 95 democrats voted for that bill. moreover -- and that included every republican leader, speaker boehner, majority leader cantor, congressman ryan, speaking
boehner told them i got 98% of what i wanted. i'm pretty happy. >> jay carney said the president will address that in his state-of-the-union address tomorrow night. >> you will hear from the president a very clear call to take action to help our economy grow and help to create jobs. you will hear from him a call, as you heard in the past, recently from him on congress not to shoot the economy in the foot unnecessarily to allow the sequester to kick in when it is wholly unnecessary to do that. >> president obama offered a hint as to what he might say tomorrow night in his weekly address. >> most members of congress, including many republicans don't think it is a good idea to put thousands of jobs at risk and do unnecessary damage to our economy. and yet the current republican plan puts the burden on seniors
and mainly middle class families. they would rather ask more from the vast majority of americans and put recovery at risk than close even a single tax loophole that benefits the wealthy. >> so turns out, john boehner getting 98% of what he wanted was not enough, was just not enough. >> and it is barack obama's fault. the position is unique, on one hand they want to say the president is not serious about deficit reduction, that he doesn't care about the deficit and wants to blow it up. on the other hand, he wants these draconian cuts and suddenly he is the king of austerity. the interesting thing is, they are the party that has been pushing, cutting the budget since the debt ceiling crisis. i mean, that is what this came out of. and now they want to turn around and place it on obama, but on the other hand they want to kind of convince us that they would ultimately go through the sequester if push came to shove.
>> steve, that was very rude of jay carney to remind us of what, to use numbers like the factual record. >> we can see this week -- in 2011, it happened twice, actually -- first, there was this continuing resolution fight early in 2011. republicans were ready to shut down the government over spending cut demands. and the white house, what we now see there is a report out that jack liu found ways to make phantom cuts, to protect the poor, and republicans didn't really look into it and accepted it. and said now we got our spending cuts. you're saying now, the debt ceiling showdown, you had a lot of republicans, leadership particularly who walked into this mess where they actually had their rank and file to do a debt default. they needed some way, any way
out of it. so what the white house, the democrats put in front of them was the committee, the sequester, they were so happy to have any kind of lifeline, and john boehner comes out, pretends it is a victory, 98%, keeping the members in line. now here it is, a ticking time bomb for republicans, a year, year and a half, they're realizing, wait a minute, we don't have much leverage with the sequester after all. >> but the thing is, boehner did get 98% of what he wanted if you believe that he really wants spending cuts. >> right, exactly, but he doesn't want any spending cuts. he wants spending cuts in very specific programs. >> none in defense. >> not a penny. >> that is the main area they want to avoid, which is exactly why the president pushed to put the spending cuts in. they, as you point out, made a huge strategic error. they had much more power, much more momentum back when this new tea party congress had just been sworn in. they should have done what they could to lock in their gains
then, when more was being put on the table by the president they could have realistically gotten more cuts, gotten some of the entitlement reforms that they wanted to. but because it was an all or nothing situation here for them, now they're here down the road with very little leverage and very little to show for it. >> and now we have bill crystal -- it reads kind of like a new song, called "it is understandable" in the weekly standard, he says it is understandable because republicans are in favor of cutting domestic spending, it is understandable because the republicans are desperate to secure what they think could be a complete victory over barack obama and harry reid. and some republicans say just let the sequester happen, let the cuts happen. he says it is understandable because going to the trouble of fixing the sequester would be fixable, and the effort to do so would create strains in the republican congress. but what is understandable is not always responsible, allowing the sequester to go into effect
would be deeply irresponsible. steve, deeply irresponsible has never been a winning argument with the house republicans. it has never scared them. >> but i guess, this is an interesting division in the republican party with the rise of the tea party. because the republican party has traditionally been the protector of the defense contracts. there is a conservative part that says to heck with them, we're in favor of big sweeping cuts but we're also okay with big sweeping cuts to the defense department. then you have big crystal, john mccain even floating the idea maybe he would be okay with more revenue as long as it meant getting the revenue off the sequester. the interesting thing here, march one is the deadline in the sequester. you also have then, three or four weeks later, the continuing resolution coming up. so it is not out of the question to me that republicans may be forced to kind of go over the cliff with the sequester and then basically restore the funding levels later in the
continuing resolution. and maybe that is where they can pull the victory out. >> we have a clarification about something that could be discussed in any kind of grand bargain, and that is the white house position on the medicare eligibility age. let's listen to that. >> is the president open to raising the eligibility age for medicare? >> no, absolutely not. the president has made clear that we don't believe that is the right policy to take. >> well, krystal, i'll check that off. that signals that. that is not going to be in any package. >> yeah, that had kind of been floated and progressives were very upset about it. and again, i think the president has navigated the waters so well that the only thing that he has left on the table is the idea of chained cpi, which would be a cut to benefits in social security. it is the one really concrete benefit cut that he has put out there on entitlements and he is willing to leave it out there as
the sort of one thing that maybe republicans could get if they're willing to play ball with tax revenues. >> all right, we'll have to leave it there. krystal ball and steve kornacki, thank you for joining us. coming up, now it takes two, two, to respond to president obama's state-of-the-union address. but really, what can rand paul say that will be so different from what marco rubio would say? richard wolff will join me on that, and karen finney will join us, and later, the oscar nominated actor of "silver linings playbook" and in the rewrite, what does george clooney have in common with sarah silverman and maya angelou.
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what does drew barrymore have in common with matt damon and art garfunkel? the one hint i can give you is the answer has absolutely nothing to do with show business. and the thing that they all have in common is something that they all also have in common with episcopal bishop ed browning. i hope that doesn't confuse things. the answer will be in tonight's rewrite. ever.
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>> came out and really -- in a spirited way, i wouldn't call them fighting words, but a very spirited defense of an aggressive progressive agenda. i am told by senator marco rubio's office he would have a kind of response to the state of the union in mind. he tore it up again, republicans, i think are ready to go toe to toe with a very spirited president who i think is ready to advance a progressive agenda. >> the bad news for rubio, not since 1996 has a republican delivered the state-of-the-union address and gone on to win the party's nomination. and today, one republican is still trying to recover from the response he delivered from president obama's first address to congress. >> good evening, and happy mardi gras, i'm bobby jindal, tonight, we witnessed a great moment in the history of our re -- republic.
our first african-american president stepped forward to deliver the state-of-the-union address. >> and the tea party express has selected the junior senator from kentucky, rand paul, who previewed his remarks. >> while they consider themselves to be republican, they casually talk about the establishment. so they want an independent voice. >> is that what you intend to do, chastise the republican establishment? >> no, but i think really there are some things that i will emphasize that maybe marco doesn't. i see it as an extra response, not necessarily as divisive. i wouldn't say necessarily marco rubio is wrong, he and i don't always agree. the thing is, this is not about he and i. this is about the tea party, which is a grass roots movement,
a real movement. >> and today, a tea party revolt is still trying to recover from the tea party response delivered in 2011. >> good evening, my name is congresswoman michelle bachmann, i want to thank the tea party express and the tea party hd for inviting me to speak this evening. >> in the famous last words of bobby jindal, good evening, and happy mardi gras. >> i love the way you look when you talk, there is the curse of bobby jindal, and marco rubio does need to think about that. not just mardi gras. >> so listen to what karl rove says about this great opportunity. >> this is a terrible assignment for anybody to get, democrat or republican. you don't look generally good in comparison to the president of the united states. he has to critique what the president has done right or wrong, and secondly, articulate
the vision for the party. it is a difficult assignment. >> rove is right, a terrible assignment. the only thing that is acceptable, a grand slam. nobody cares if you have a single or double. so rubio, if he does well will absolutely be the runaway star of the party, there just won't be anybody else. >> that is right, you're not in a presidential setting and you are following the president who is not in the oval office. it is not a quiet presidential setting, you are commanding the center. everybody wants to shake your hand, get their autograph, it is an impossible act to follow. and here is the bigger problem. even if he doesn't do the goofy, let's all go to louisiana and
have a party, even if he doesn't do that he somehow has to survive three or four years of everyone throwing rocks at him. the one thing -- there are many things marco rubio has done to copy barack obama, he gives a speech and it sounds like obama could have given it. one thing he has not learned is that in the first couple of years of being in the senate, barack obama kept his head down. he didn't do national interviews, didn't do this kind of stunt, precisely every time he opened his mouth, that meant there were 20 people behind him, mostly fellow senators, who were out to get him. >> this time tomorrow night, rubio will either be a way bigger star than he is now, or there will be all of this who do we go to? it wouldn't be rubio, he can't do it. >> and he was just on the cover of "time magazine" there is this thing called peaking too early. and he is in danger of doing that. >> let's listen to what rubio said on cbs news tonight. i guess we're not going to hear it. i can read it. he said we'll lay out the republican agenda and argue that
it is focused on pro-growth policies to include new jobs and immigration reform, military reform, ending obama care. he will also take on the president's inaugural address, which he described as a call for big government. >> you know, there is a problem here. mitt romney talked about middle class, and focus groups. well, everyone knows that is where the votes are. remember you're following a president who just won re-election because he appealed to the middle class much better than the republicans did. how do you square pro growth with cuts deficits now? that is the problem that republicans couldn't get their arms around in the last election, let's see if rubio can do it now. >> and let's see if he can come up with something new. >> big government, i think we've heard it. coming up, the latest on the roadblocks against the violence
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media yet another chance to do saturation coverage of the selection of the next man and we know it will be a man, since only men are eligible. the next man to lead the holy roman catholic church. non-catholics will surely marvel about the coverage it will get, even though we know that many americans will disagree with the pope, just as they do with the pope on crucial items such as abortion, gay rights. catholics disagree with the pope, even though they are told that the pope is infallible and they are not. but that won't stop the american media of covering the pope who most catholics refuse to follow. and in deadbeat dad news tonight, "the chicago sun times" reports that joe walsh has filed
papers to cease paying child support because he is no longer employed as a congressman. coming up, the academy award nominee, david russell, talking about the improvement to the health care system. and coming up, what does ellen degeneres have in common with john mcenroe and the temptations? [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy
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and unfortunately, there are issues that don't directly bear on that that have come up that have complicated it, as the gentleman knows, but in working with his office and the vice president, i hope to bring it up in an expeditious. >> two senators are lobbying against the bill, regarding domestic abusers and expands coverage to same-sex marriage individuals. freedom works says the newest version of the bill contains very vague and broad definitions of domestic violence. a man who raises his voice, simply just annoys her can potentially be prosecuted under the violence against women act. calling your spouse a mean name is not advised or polite, but it is not the same as the violence
against women, portraying them as helpless victims. this is the kind of attitude that is setting women back. and "heritage action for america" claims it will create false allegations for which there is no recourse. men effectively lose their rights to due process, the presumption of innocence, the right for a fair trial, to right to confront one's accusers and the right to bear arms. and the custody visitation rights is in unprecedented, unnecessary, and dangerous. the house leader told nbc news tonight they now plan to introduce their own separate version of the violence against women act and move on that version, instead of the senate version which is expected to pass tomorrow. joining me now, msnbc's karen finney, the whole -- it is the
only difference, is the only problem that the republicans have in the house this issue of how this bill is affected -- how it affects process on tribal lands? >> that is the major sticking point. and it is the issue of nonnative men who we know prey on native women. and that is part of the whole point is that because they know that they can sort of skirt the law it is easier to essentially assault native american women on tribal lands. native american women are assaulted at rates much higher than other women in this country, about three out of five. and so this is a very serious problem that these guys are essentially, by this tactic, by saying they're going to you know, introduce their own legislation, it is a very cowardly tactic that will delay actually any kind of movement on this legislation. because they have to find a new sponsor and start from scratch.
so it is a very convenient, cowardly way of getting out of having to take a stand. >> and just to clarify what the bill does, it applies to only assaults that have occurred on tribal lands. and the tribal -- process can only be used with a man who actually has a very strong connection to the tribal land, either lives there or works there. it is not just someone passing through who can randomly get caught in some sort of violence against women's speed trap. >> right. >> and ana marie cox, this notion of the laws of where you commit a crime apply has been present throughout our legal history. >> that is sort of how the law works, yes, it is where you commit the crime that matters. you know, i think that this issue of the crimes on tribal land is obviously the thing that they're talking about. and the sticking point.
but i'm really alarmed by the language by the heritage organization and the other conservative group you mentioned. they would talk about this as something -- somehow the very idea of the violence against women act is somehow treating women as helpless victims. the violence against women act has actually given women help. it makes them not victims. it makes them the opposite of helpless victims. you know over half of the funding in the violence against women's act goes to prevention against violence, getting them out of situations. and law enforcement officers love this act, not just because it gives them more funding but it actually decreases arrests. fewer men are arrested if you intervene on the process, families stay together if you intervene on the process. i am shocked and to the point of incoherent that this is something that republicans would dare to oppose. >> well, you're not the only one, let's listen to what lisa murkowski, republican senator, said on this. >> i have urged on multiple occasions that we move forward
with the re-authorization of this very significant legislation. have urged the house to do the same last year. they failed to do that. you don't give up when the cause is right. >> karen finney, there is somebody who knows something about how this law would operate on tribal lands. >> that is right, this includes alaska. it is my understanding there could be provisions that even a non-native man in this situation on tribal lands who was being prosecuted by the tribal courts could still maintain their constitutional rights. that is something that obviously -- that is one of the major sticking points. i want to say i agree with ana marie. let's talk about this disgusting issue with the heritage foundation -- at a time when they're trying to say they're pro women, they're basically saying it is okay to abuse certain kinds of women.
and they're trying to re-frame this issue to actually pit men and women against each other, rather -- in some kind of ridiculous assertion that somehow rights and freedoms. there is like a limited amount, if we give more to women that will take away from men, let's just make sure everybody is protected. >> let's listen to increasingly the voice of reason in the house of republicans said to the "new york times." he said, we're holding up a violence bill that should be retained because you don't want to help native women who are the most vulnerable over a philosophical point. ana rhea county, it seems like the house republicans are desperately trying to find something to stop this bill. >> yes, it is not even a philosophical point. it is sort of a legalistic point, sort of nit-picking, making them look like the
obstructionist congress that they are. they just want to stop stuff from happening that they don't like. they're not actually interested in compromise. they're interested in spoilers. and the fact this has to do with the domestic violence and the violence against women act just makes it more obviously disgusting than some of the other things that they have been against. this is something, this is a bill for people that has decreased domestic violence that has been authorized up until 2010. this is something that has actually saved the country in $15 billion in costs that were averted because of the intervention and the help that the agencies got. >> ana marie cox, and karen finney, thank you for joining us. what does reese witherspoon
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what does reese witherspoon have in common with amy poelher have in common. >> barbara streisand had the honor of being on president nixon's enemy list, which will give you the idea of what they have in common. next, on the rewrite. watch this- alakazam! ♪ [ male announcer ] staples has always made getting office supplies easy. ♪ another laptop? don't ask. disappear! abracadabra! alakazam! [ male announcer ] and now we're making it easier to get everything for your small business. and for my greatest trick! enough! [ male announcer ] because whatever you need, we'll have it or find it, and get it to you fast. staples. that was easy.
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what does jessica alba, stunningly beautiful actress, wife and mom, have in common with maya angelou, poet. it is actually something that they have in common with george clooney and ellen degeneres. and no, it is not what you're thinking. and oh, by the way, it has nothing to do with show business. all of those people i have mentioned so far have the same thing in common which happens to be the same thing that kevin costner and danny devito have in common. you starting to see a pattern here? okay, what does sally field have in common with doug fluty, the greatest passer, i have seen in
the college game, so perfect, so dramatic that i have never had to watch another football game in my life. and what does bryant gumbel have in common with dustin hoffman? yeah, we're kind of going in order here. and yes, everybody i mentioned so far has the same thing in common. it is the same thing that diane keaton, and lenny kravitz, and the winner of the author book award have in common. and penny marshal, john mcenroe, and michael moore also have it in common. and what does mike nichols have in common? and oscar winning director, mike nichols have in common with brittany spears? remember, it has absolutely
nothing to do with show business. it is what meryl streep has in common with the temptations. the most successful producer of our time has in common with oprah winfrey. it is what jennifer aniston has in common, with ed koch, the former mayor who died last week. what paul rudd has in common with c. everett coop, the surgeon general. obviously, i could go on and on, i will give you the final clue of what unlocks this mystery, of what all of these people have in common, every name i have mentioned so far has this same
thing in common. and here is that final clue that should allow you to figure it all out. what does sarah silverman have in common with marion wright edelman, the president and founder of the children's defense fund? come on, it is not obvious yet. okay, one more. one more hint. what does former president jimmy carter have in common with rabbi david saberstein, and yes, obviously gary trudeau's wife, jane pauly is on this list. that is the big hint, it is a list, they're all on the same list, every one of these people i have mentioned are on an honor roll. but the people who made the list that they're all on? the people who made that list, they don't think it is an honor roll. because it is their enemy's list. that is right, every name i just mentioned from jessica alba to
jane pauley is on the national rifle association's enemy's list. and that is just a small sample of who is on that list. the only o'donnell on the list is rosy, chris o'donnell didn't make it. and unfortunately, nothing i have said here about blood-drenched lobbyist wayne lapierre, i have not made the list. in fact no one from msnbc has made the list, but nbc is on the list, and maybe we can presume that everybody picking up a paycheck is on the list. and that would put me on that guy on the list. but i don't want to be on the list with that guy. so i will just have to wait patiently for the nra to put me on the enemy's list.
and when and if they do, i hope they don't put me on the anti-gun journalist section of the list, and they probably won't. it just doesn't a single journalist, just cartoonists, that is where you find frank rich, e.j. dionne, and the columnist, jimmy breslin, from whom every newspaper columnist has learned a thing or two. i want to be on the fun section of the list, where albert brooks is, it is by far the longest section of the list and includes more friends of mine than any other part of the list. norman lear, spike lee, rob lowe, madonna. okay, i don't really know her, i just met her a long time ago. you get the idea, this is the fun group. this is where you want to be on the list. here is hoping the next time the nra writes the list, they find a way to squeeze me in with the fun crowd. it really would be an honor.
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we have a problem where we shop, where we pray, where our children go to school. but, there are solutions. we can agree on them, even gun owners like us. take it from me, congress must act, let's get this done. >> that was gabrielle giffords in the first ad sponsored by her political action committee, americans for responsible solutions. one solution in the gun control debate that both sides of the aisle seem to agree on is
strengthening the mental health care system. last week, bradley cooper and david o. russell, author of "the silver linings play book," met with vice president joe biden. the oscar nominated director, david o. russell, also issued the directives, with treatment at the local level. for russell, access to mental health care is personal. >> our film, i made it for personal reasons. i am the father of a son who struggled with mood disorder. i lived through many of of the things in the field, as is his mother. when you have a son, he is 11, he says he is not happy about the business called living. you would do just about anything for the child to turn it around. so he loved stories, movies, i said let's make a movie that is about you.
>> joining me now, david o. russell, i just saw the movie last night, i am probably the last person in the country to see it. you know, the football imagery in the commercials, made me -- i don't care about football. you could have had a commercial that says this is a wonderful love story that is fun and -- and includes dancing. i would have you know, been first in line. i was slow because of those promos. >> i don't know what to tell you. i get it, that the movie has all of those things in it. robert deniro's character is a book maker, that is part of the obsession, is the eagles. but i get it, at the heart of the story, somebody who struggles with bipolar. >> i want to talk about one of the things coming up in washington, the mental health issue. your movie comes out at a time
when the dialogue was going on in an intense way. you were in it. and i want to listen to what the senator said about it after seeing your movie. >> i have to tell you, it touched my life and my family's life in a way that few other movies have. when i was growing up my dad had a mental illness, we didn't know what it was. in the '60s, everybody was called mentally ill. there were scenes, i told david there were scenes in the movie that i can personally identify with. i had the opportunity to see my movie with my mom, and she did, as well. >> you must be getting that kind of comment from people everywhere. and not just senators. they see things in the movie that they have experienced with relatives of theirs. >> that is one of the most satisfying things about the
film. i, as many families have been dealing with it for a long time. my son will be 19. i'll deal with it for the rest of my life. and many families will. but during the course of the movie, i now meet many people, i met your makeup person. everywhere i go, jay leno tells me he has somebody in his family. everyone tells me a story, they have somebody in their family who faces the struggles. the whole family must rally around it and deal with it. sometimes they have the right resources, sometimes they don't. sometimes the state of new york tells you here is where your kid should go. and you say that is the program for violent offenders, why is that my only option? and the state says we're broke, that is all we have. i am on the board of my son's school. a fantastic program. but there are parents who have to fight to get funding to send their children to that school because the other option is to go where there is violent offenders, and the state says that is all we got. that is not a solution. >> senator frank raised a upon the in the hearing on gun
control in the senate, about let's not go too far here. let's not find ourselves stigmatizing people with mental issues and suggesting that this means they are dangerous and likely to use firearms. that is not borne out by what we know. >> i don't think you want the stigma, the beauty of the movie is it opened the dialogue and we moved the stigma. you should not stereotype them. everybody in the program is different, the treatments are all different. but no, you do want to have a community that has resources to address it before it becomes a crisis. and in this country, because of the stigma, sometimes it is not addressed until it is a crisis. and everybody wakes up and somebody is doing something. and well, where were you with this person ten or five years ago? it takes an enormous amount of awareness. if there is a stigma, there is not a conversation. people don't want -- people don't want to talk about this